Copying the Chinese for a change. (assuming they didn't copy someone else.)
While laminating carbon fibre electrodes onto some experimental membranes, I decided to have a go at making some heater pads based on laminated carbon fibre tissue with copper electrodes.
It's a technique I've seen used in many imported low power heating products, and it seems to work pretty well. There's huge scope to customise the shape, area and heat level.
I then decided to test one to destruction to see how it fared.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- https://www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of YouTube's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators
While laminating carbon fibre electrodes onto some experimental membranes, I decided to have a go at making some heater pads based on laminated carbon fibre tissue with copper electrodes.
It's a technique I've seen used in many imported low power heating products, and it seems to work pretty well. There's huge scope to customise the shape, area and heat level.
I then decided to test one to destruction to see how it fared.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- https://www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of YouTube's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators
I've just been experimenting with making some custom heater pads and it's actually very easy and it seems to work quite well. And this is based on the little pads you often find in things like heated gloves from Chinese sellers and this was a something that I was making a sort of like a carbon fiber sandwiched membrane for other electrical experiments and then realized it'd be quite interesting to run a laminating pouch through as well with carbon fiber in it. So let me show you the process of making this. Now a couple of options here.
we're going to put some copper tape in and then we're going to put the carbon fiber tissue across it. This is available on Phoebe It's used in modeling for making super tough things like wings for model aircraft, so it's quite useful as a source of material. Now if I get a hole punch and this is just an option, you could also have the Cobra come here at the end, but if I get a hole punch and I'll just do it at one end I punch a little hole in like this and then I do one at the other end as well. The first one I did was in the middle but I then realized they don't really need to do in the middle.
You can do it really wherever you want. So uh, I've punched a couple of holes in this pouch now I'm going to lay some copper tape. The copper tape is also available from eBay although goodness knows what it's actually made of I think it's copper, you just never know It could be a coppery looking alloy. So how's that bit gonna size? Yeah, that looks all right.
I Shall cut a matching bit. Fumble, fumble, fumble. So the carbon fiber can be laid in in a multiple of ways and you could make it. search for a higher voltage or a lower voltage.
In my case. I'm just going to make it for five volts because that is convenient. but I'll show you the other methods used for making it for higher voltage. It does have lots of options.
You can customize the heater map to your voltage and the heat you require within reason because you don't want to get too hot because otherwise it's going to melt the pouch. You know what? I Think we might try that anyway and just see what happens. I Shall melt a pouch just to see what happens when you exceed that temperature power rating. So I'm going to initially slide this in just because it seems the easiest way to do it.
Oh, maybe I won't. This isn't going well, is it? Bumble Fumble fumble again. Social slate this in underneath that hole that I've put in there. Technically speaking, you could use non-self adhesive tape.
This is a self-adhesive copper tape. I'm putting that in squint. It's fine. that'll do.
It's a prototype. Uh, but theoretically you could use the non-adhesive one because one of the problems here is I'm going to actually be soldering through that little hole down there and it's got the adhesive layer and it just makes it a little bit harder to solder. That's why you could just bring the copper tape out the end or use none adhesive copper tape or fold a bit in double if you get the adhesive stuff just because it's easier to get this stuff like this with the the tape with adhesive on it. This is also proving quite hard to start. If I didn't cut my fingernails down quite so much, it'd be easier. Let's see if I can mess this up completely. There we go. So here's the other electrode and I should place this.
I should Zoom down this a little bit. Now it doesn't really matter because it's not a fine. There's no finesse involved in this project. So this time because uh, I've got the hole here I'm just going to put the tape over it like this because it's easier to reach than the other one was way off center.
That doesn't matter, it is just a prototype. Now comes the carbon fiber. This stuff comes in a rule and there's a very thin tissue. What you get may vary in the thickness.
This is quite odd material. It cuts very easily so I'm going to need a bit. I'll cut a whole strip. It's very crisp feeling when you cut it.
It's very kind of brittle the point of carbon fiber as it becomes strong when it's laminated with resin. This would also make an interesting material for ionization. I shall put this back in its little sleeve rather annoyingly I lost my other all of this. Uh, bought another one and then Murphy's Law instantly found the other one as soon as I'd ordered the other one.
So let's cut this down to size. noting that carbon fiber is a notorious for very sharp. Little Fibers So let's um, I've just stuck that onto the tube. Let's cut it like that and then I should put it in here and lay it between the copper electrodes.
This is a bit hand-fisted, but you know what? Treat this as a prototype that looks alright. Okay, now I'm going to laminate it. Then we'll sort of some Mars on and we'll see what sort of parrot actually passes. Here is the laminator.
I shall put it between the little non-stick pouch. there is a non-stick perch. there is a non-stick pouch I've preheated the laminator, it is hot and I shall put this in like this and feed it through. At this point while it's feeding through, I could bring in the notepad and show you other options if you wanted to double the resistance.
well, more than double the resistance. You could put a bit of copper tape like that and then two bits of copper tube like this and you could lay a section of the carbon fiber across like that and one like that. so you'd end up with uh, two sections, two thinner sections which would make it much Suiter to higher voltage. I Shall feed this through again.
Other options technically speaking: I Suppose you could just cut and put two bits of copper tape at one end and you could actually just cut a sheet of carbon fiber with a suitable notch in the middle like that. And likewise, you could have um, three stripes of the carbon fiber. You could really just, uh, the thickness of the stripe will lower the resistance. and then you could have like a copper tab there, a link tab there, a link tab there, and then a copper tab there for the connection that would connect all three in series. Many, many options. You can customize this to your own requirement. You could make it A4 sized. Let's stuff it through again.
it's no harm in in multiple laminating it. Then I Shall get these wires ready to put on natural, this little bit of fluffy carbon fiber out the way. It's very, very latent airborne. I Wouldn't like to work with carbon fiber all the time.
It's got extremely fine fibers that may pose a health hazard not the same way as asbestos. Not, they're permanently stuck in your lungs type of thing, but still sharp carbon fibers that could cause damage and breathe them in all the time could lead to health problems, right? So let's get this out of the way and test our newly made thermal mat looking good. So now I'm going to try. let's focus down onto there and zoom down now and brighten up.
Maybe Yeah. So I've got these pads here with adhesive on them I could try using a cotton button and cleaning some of the adhesive off I've never tried that. Let's do it right now. so I could get some isopropanol.
This is probably going to be a terrible idea. should do this when I'm making a video about it without any rehearsal whatsoever. The answer is yes I should that feels as though it's had an effect that it may have actually cleaned a adhesive off. Let's try another side.
that'd be good if it has, because, uh, melting through the adhesive was actually a bit problematic before, particularly because the copper wants to take the heat away. the soldier iron is hot, the solder is on standby whether it's disorder I had disorder I shall grab another bit of soda I've misplaced that but another bit of solder and let's try throwing it onto here, eating and get it to stick there we go. Not too bad I think I may have melted some of the other pouch away there, but it has heated up to the point it's stuck. Excellent and now I'll tap these wires on one there.
Oh I think it melted right through the plastic I Have it? doesn't really matter, it's made the connection to the Copper That's what we want. The bulk of the connection is along the full run of the Uh copper strip anyway. and now I have a convenient five volt. Supply and I shall rate on it.
Why get current wise? So I'm sticking this connection on here and this connection on here. It is now passing 390 2 milliamps. So here's a pan: 392 milliamps. No sweeping up and down a bit I Don't know if that affects.
no. it seems fairly consistent. Uh, let's say 395 milliamps 395 milliamps at 5 volts. And that means the power dissipation of this is calculator.
Oh, what have I done with the calculator? There it is the Kink calculator. Uh, 5 volts times 395 milliamps? That's 0.395 amps equals 1.9 Watts Let's say 2 Watts for this strip. two watts and right now this is just getting mildly worm over its surface. It's quite nice out. it's just an ambient, very diffused temperature. Uh, hold on, just give me a second. I'll show you this with the thermal imaging camera. That seems the best idea one moment.
please. There it is. Uh, 37 degrees there and about 43 down there so it's not. It's not powerful even I Guess it just depends on the weave of the material I suppose.
Also, you could if the carbon fiber has a particular orientation of strands. In this case, it looks kind of diagonal. Could be wrong here. or let's just it's more or less random, but you could orientate it towards.
you know, the the direction strands. Now the last test to do here is to overheat this deliberately. So Let's uh Zoom down. this I should lift up a little bit and then we'll just bump the voltage up and the current.
So now this is one amp at about 13 volts so that's about 13. Watts What's going to happen here? It's getting hot, but not dramatically hot, but that would definitely start hitting your cup of tea. I Don't think it would boil a cup of tea and so that's about 13 Watts being disappeared by this at the moment I'm not sure what this would take I don't see it actually softening or deforming in any way. let's bump up a little bit more.
it's current regulating. it's up at 60 volts 1.2 Let's bring the Kink calculator in and calculate that so that is the current's waving up and down is actually kind of going down now. Oh I can see air moisture uh coming out the fiber in there and that's actually separating it. Okay, so this is settled in at one amp.
Well, 16 volts one amp I don't need to calculate this at 16 Watts and it is starting to show signs of Rippling Oh, that is hard. that is very hot. Oh it is getting soft now. I think I'd have to go higher voltage to get any decent effect on how our voltage is.
then. uh, just one moment please. I'm just going to change the set. No, No.
I'll just pause or entirely. Uh, let's uh, turn this on. All right. So let's go up to 20 volts.
So that's 10 volts, 15 volts current limiting. Bear with me one moment. 20 volts, 1.3 amps. Watch that power going to be at 20 volts? 1.3 Uh, 1.37 20 volts times 1.37 equals 27? Watts Oh, it's all shriveling up.
Now it's all shriveling. It's going a bit soft and crinkly. Okay, increase the power. So 22 volts.
It's starting to smell 25 volts. At 1.4 amps, there's smoke Me off it. Oh, the plastic's starting to. it's starting to smoke and the plastic starting distort the square.
Shoot him a little Fire extinguisher hand. Isn't it very smoky? Yes. Fire Stop Fire extinguisher on hand. Let's hold this in the corner.
It's actually starting to delaminate here. Okay, 1.1 that's 26. Watts At the moment, we're now up to 27 volts. That's the limit that post play at the one. um, so it will self-destruct if you get high enough and the currents dropping down. Now at 27 volts, it's dropped down to one amp. So I'm guessing that's because the everything's kind of delaminating. It's breaking the circuit.
But that concludes that test. I think uh, hold on I'll just see what else can get here one moment, please, right? So let's uh, continue on. So the current has dropped off significantly actually. but now I'm up to 26 volts, 28 volts, 29 volts an amp.
So it's 30. Watts At the moment, there's a smoke. Again, this is good. Um, and this is the limit.
This time, that's uh. 36 volts. Plenty of smoke. Is it going to burst into flames? Oh, it's stinking.
That's very it smells like Wax I Can see the plastic boiling down there. What's going to happen? Why is all happening at one end? Is that where it's basically starting to break its connections? it's gone a bit. Sort of. How black There You know.
You just want to watch this and see the whole lot burst into flames. What's gonna happen? The current is dropping. I Think it's gradually just fizzling out its little carbon fiber links and it is delaminating completely. At that point and stretching, it's gone very soft.
it's gone into self-destruct mode or that has reduced the current dramatically. So uh, no flames. I'm afraid. Ah Boo wanted Flames But uh, that is it.
These things are only really intended for about five volts or whatever. depends actually on the the length of carbon fiber. If you put a much higher length in, then you can go for a higher voltage too. But for these little sort of like security pass table, how many pouches? I would say that optimal voltage and just for a couple of watts is five volts.
But there we go. How to make your uh, combustible, uh, customized heat pads or strips? You could customize this into just about anything you wanted, but quite useful. Useful to know that this can be done.
you should try it by sandwiching the heating element between two layers of those cell phone scratch covers made of glass.
Preventing dew forming on telescopes.
There are branded products. This roll of fibre is probably expensive for just one piece.
Custom size or shape?
This reminds me of a science lesson I was in where I got bored and cranked up the voltage.
your pink calculator is EPIC !! thank you for this vid !
very interesting. 😭I wish you had showed how hot it got with your thermal camera…
👉also, I'd be curious to see how hot it can get without self destructing if you used Kapton tape which would be able to withstand a higher temperature (at least double!) instead of laminating film
Hello, what type of thermal camera did you use? Thanks
Hej Clive, awesome vids and info as always. I was wondering could i use this to warm my hands inside gloves or mittens using a small charging pack etc as i have carpal tunnel syndeome and my hands are nearly always ice cold. Winter is also on the way. Any tips from you would be appreciated. Also is it called carbon fibre felt ? Thanx
Could someone do me a huge favor. and give me a link where to find this. I"m disabled for several reasons, all because some asshole rearended me in 1993. I have poly neuropathy, this means my feet nerves constantly send pain signals, driving me crazy at some point. I have been using these heatpads for years, and i saw the prices going from 3 € to 16 € or even higher prices. They don't last long, so it would be great if i could make my own, the size i want, ….
I just need a link to find them, I have been looking for hours, even maybe days when you add up the hours, so please, please, please …..
Try it with silicon rubber baking mat cut to size. I wager it will last longer.
The heating pad on my FDM 3D printer base uses a silicon heating pad which can handle over 400C. It runs at 240v AC and is temperature controlled using a pid and controller which uses bang-bang voltage control. Bang-bang is fine because the heating pad is attached to an aluminium plate with a mass high enough to not need subtle voltage control.
afaik carbon fibers do pose a similar risk as asbestos when inhaled
I'm looking at that and thinking that ultra thin form factor could be ideal for putting inside security camera housings to keep frost/condensation off the window.
Anyway, I'm now wondering if it could be a more robust option to create the contact points by putting several lines of stitching into either end, but using wire as thread, then twisting all the wire tails together, and crimping a connector on that? Would thin multi strand copper wire have a hope of going through a sewing machine (I'm thinking about the wire core from something like an Ethernet or USB cable)?
Failing that, maybe for experimentation, just have the ends of the carbon protruding slightly from the laminate sleeve, and use bulldog clips on them for contacts?